http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&disp=comments en-US http://backend.userland.com/rss 60 Sat, 03 Apr 2010 19:05:42 +0000 c349@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution I think the analogy of going to the supermarket and being charged for all items on the shelf is a good one. It is quite the exaggeration to say that we have even looked at that many documents. Most of the documents were photographed and the majority of those were of the board book of minutes and agendas, (sits in the lobby all the time,) you have to wonder what type of math do the children learn, if that is one of the schools examples. Elizabeth Hill stated that the Minutes and Agendas were to be placed on the school web site since August of 2007. That was in response to a OML violation in July. When a agenda for a meeting was NOT posted on the school clipboard. The school only posted for two months and then stopped. Liz Hill was made aware of this in Oct of 2008 after a training session where she used the incident as an example of breaking the OML’s. The school administration has used various phrases to various offices and the public depending on what they want the outcome to be. I’d challenge anyone to say that they would want their school board and admin to allow a moving target if the children were doing the explaining. Why is it that our school has a different standard for the staff and a different set of rules for everyone else?
Most of the documents were photographed and the majority of those were of the board book of minutes and agendas, (sits in the lobby all the time,) you have to wonder what type of math do the children learn, if that is one of the schools examples.

Elizabeth Hill stated that the Minutes and Agendas were to be placed on the school web site since August of 2007. That was in response to a OML violation in July. When a agenda for a meeting was NOT posted on the school clipboard. The school only posted for two months and then stopped. Liz Hill was made aware of this in Oct of 2008 after a training session where she used the incident as an example of breaking the OML’s.

The school administration has used various phrases to various offices and the public depending on what they want the outcome to be. I’d challenge anyone to say that they would want their school board and admin to allow a moving target if the children were doing the explaining. Why is it that our school has a different standard for the staff and a different set of rules for everyone else?
]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=clarifying_the_issues&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c349 Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:56:25 +0000 c348@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Agreed. I purposely created the math so it would be difficult for somebody to claim that I was exaggerating. Your figure are much more realistic. When you see that the average is more like 2 public record complaints per YEAR are on 2 per person, one can only wonder how the CESD can complain that this is a "... protracted and coordinated attack on Congress [school district] constitutes a nuisance and harrassment ... that is contrary to the best interests of the state to comply with the numerous public records requests filed by the Defendants on an almost daily basis."
When you see that the average is more like 2 public record complaints per YEAR are on 2 per person, one can only wonder how the CESD can complain that this is a "... protracted and coordinated attack on Congress [school district] constitutes a nuisance and harrassment ... that is contrary to the best interests of the state to comply with the numerous public records requests filed by the Defendants on an almost daily basis."]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c348 Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:55:21 +0000 c347@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Dave, Your math is little off, the claim is from 2002-2009 (7 yrs), school is in session for, I believe, 180 days total from Aug to May, so the weekends are already accounted for. So 180 days x 7 = 1260 days so that comes out to a request every 12.6 days, hardly what I would consider daily! However, you are correct about most of the requests not even being for public records at all but instead the majority of requests, as per the Complaint itself, were for information on the defendent's own children and so would bring the amount of public records requests down even lower The complaints filed,in a 2 year period per the Complaint, average out to 2 complaints per person per year,again NOT daily. In reading the Complaint, who would've thought that it was wrong to try to get information on a counselor your child is seeing at the school. Who would've thought it was wrong to doublecheck your child's school lunch account for errors. Who would've thought it was wrong to request test scores of tests your child has taken at school. I just don't get it, how can caring about your child and wanting to have information regarding your own child be taken as harassment by any government entity! Welcome to Congress.
Your math is little off, the claim is from 2002-2009 (7 yrs), school is in session for, I believe, 180 days total from Aug to May, so the weekends are already accounted for. So 180 days x 7 = 1260 days so that comes out to a request every 12.6 days, hardly what I would consider daily!

However, you are correct about most of the requests not even being for public records at all but instead the majority of requests, as per the Complaint itself, were for information on the defendent's own children and so would bring the amount of public records requests down even lower

The complaints filed,in a 2 year period per the Complaint, average out to 2 complaints per person per year,again NOT daily.

In reading the Complaint, who would've thought that it was wrong to try to get information on a counselor your child is seeing at the school.

Who would've thought it was wrong to doublecheck your child's school lunch account for errors.

Who would've thought it was wrong to request test scores of tests your child has taken at school.

I just don't get it, how can caring about your child and wanting to have information regarding your own child be taken as harassment by any government entity!

Welcome to Congress.


]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c347 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 04:27:50 +0000 c346@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Congressmom, It does sound that way, especially if you've read the Motion to Dismiss that was filed by on January 28, 2008 by the Goldwater Institute. Hard to image what's the District is thinking as it looks like there are any number of federal and state laws that don't allow actions they desire. Two terms that caught my eye: "prior restraint" and the First Amendment. After I learned of this case, I ordered and got a copy of "Speaking Freely" by Floyd Abrams who documents trials of the First Amendment. I've only had time to read the first chapter which is about the Pentagon Papers where both of these terms were brought into play. Contrary to what I had always thought, the meaning of such words are not 100% agreed upon as their meanings have changed over the years. Equally important is how they, and other terms, need to not only be used in speech or writing, but need to be connected with some physical, on-the-ground evidence. One of the major reasons the U.S. Government lost its case preventing the N.Y. Times from publishing the Papers is because they couldn't do more than say that it "could," or "might" or "may" cause some damage and that's not enough. When I read the Complaint, it look similar, as one of the first sentences includes "it is contrary to the best interests of the state to continue to comply with the numerous public records requests file by the Defendants on an almost daily basis." Sound pretty horrific and definitely a nuisance, but when you look for some evidence to support that claim, it's hard to find, especially for "an almost daily basis." Let's see, the Complaint says 100 public records + 10 other complaints between 2001 and 2009. I may not have that 100% right so lets use 7 years. I don't know how much of the year the school is open, but let's say 6 months with 20 working days a month which comes out to 120 days/year X 7 years = 840 days/110 = every 7.6 days. Is that almost daily? However, if you read the Motion to Dismiss you learn that not all the requests are for public records so you begin to suspect something else is going on. No sure what, but something doesn't add up. Who knows, maybe it's me . . .
Two terms that caught my eye: "prior restraint" and the First Amendment. After I learned of this case, I ordered and got a copy of "Speaking Freely" by Floyd Abrams who documents trials of the First Amendment. I've only had time to read the first chapter which is about the Pentagon Papers where both of these terms were brought into play.

Contrary to what I had always thought, the meaning of such words are not 100% agreed upon as their meanings have changed over the years. Equally important is how they, and other terms, need to not only be used in speech or writing, but need to be connected with some physical, on-the-ground evidence. One of the major reasons the U.S. Government lost its case preventing the N.Y. Times from publishing the Papers is because they couldn't do more than say that it "could," or "might" or "may" cause some damage and that's not enough.

When I read the Complaint, it look similar, as one of the first sentences includes "it is contrary to the best interests of the state to continue to comply with the numerous public records requests file by the Defendants on an almost daily basis." Sound pretty horrific and definitely a nuisance, but when you look for some evidence to support that claim, it's hard to find, especially for "an almost daily basis."

Let's see, the Complaint says 100 public records + 10 other complaints between 2001 and 2009. I may not have that 100% right so lets use 7 years. I don't know how much of the year the school is open, but let's say 6 months with 20 working days a month which comes out to 120 days/year X 7 years = 840 days/110 = every 7.6 days. Is that almost daily?

However, if you read the Motion to Dismiss you learn that not all the requests are for public records so you begin to suspect something else is going on. No sure what, but something doesn't add up. Who knows, maybe it's me . . .]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c346 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:46:42 +0000 c345@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution “The district is acting like a classic schoolyard bully,” said Clint Bolick, Goldwater Institute director of litigation. “We will take whatever action is necessary to protect our clients’ rights and to deter other government officials from even thinking about taking such outrageous actions to silence citizens.” ]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c345 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:47:10 +0000 c344@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution And Representative Jack Harper is "watching this issue": from Jack Harper dateThu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:14 PM subject RE: Az School District seeks to remove citizen's First Amendment rights Thank you, I am watching that issue. The State Ombudsman works for the Legislature and is aware of this. Jack State Senator Jack Harper
from Jack Harper

dateThu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:14 PM

subject RE: Az School District seeks to remove citizen's First Amendment rights

Thank you, I am watching that issue. The State Ombudsman works for the Legislature and is aware of this.

Jack

State Senator Jack Harper]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c344 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:44:35 +0000 c343@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution An email sent from Representaive Judy Burges regarding this lawsuit: From: Judy M. Burges [mailto:jburges@azleg.gov] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:56 PM To: Subject: RE: Congress School sues "We the People" Good afternoon! The parents and citizens are right. These are public records, and the school should provide the records. Judy An email sent from Representaive Judy Burges regarding this lawsuit:

From: Judy M. Burges [mailto:jburges@azleg.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:56 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Congress School sues "We the People"

Good afternoon! The parents and citizens are right. These are public records, and the school should provide the records.

Judy
]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c343 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:59:32 +0000 c340@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Note: If you want to comment on this issue privately, send e-mail to davemclane@actual-life.com

]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_ariz_school_district_sues_taxpa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c340 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 04:59:39 +0000 c339@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Sarge, also known as Dewey, was a larger than life character. He always had a joke or a story to tell and he loved people so much. Here in Congress he made the rounds, stopping in to shoot the breeze at B+B or the Congress Beauty salon or the old Cafe, just any place there was someone to talk to. Everyone knew Sarge! The service held for him at the Yarnell overlook was really done well. A short recap of his life was recited, A woman who said she knew Sarge for many years stood up and sang "Happy Trails to you". I don't know her name but I thought this was the perfect touch and she did a great job. The ceramony included representatives from the Marines who unfolded then folded the United States flag into a triangle, presenting it to Dave and Lisa, very close friends of Sarge's. Then taps was played on the bugle. As I said, it was a lovely service, held in the perfect spot and I think Sarge would have approved. Good bye, Sarge. My husband and I will miss you and we feel we are better people for having known you. Keep the angels up in Heaven laughing! The service held for him at the Yarnell overlook was really done well. A short recap of his life was recited, A woman who said she knew Sarge for many years stood up and sang "Happy Trails to you". I don't know her name but I thought this was the perfect touch and she did a great job. The ceramony included representatives from the Marines who unfolded then folded the United States flag into a triangle, presenting it to Dave and Lisa, very close friends of Sarge's. Then taps was played on the bugle. As I said, it was a lovely service, held in the perfect spot and I think Sarge would have approved.
Good bye, Sarge. My husband and I will miss you and we feel we are better people for having known you. Keep the angels up in Heaven laughing!]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=duane_w_sarge_seibert_memorial_service&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c339 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:43:18 +0000 c338@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution SO now that Story is out of school for the rest of the year...what happens next? Since nobody seems to try and help this situation- there is no resolution. The child does not have a right to a free public education. The parents have no right to decide what is best for their child. AND the school does not care about its kids..just their dollars. I have NEVER heard of a school where the principal and the superintendant are the same person...Does she draw 2 pay checks? Where or what is the chain of command? The NAZI take on the school and the mind control over the community is very frightening. I would NEVER let my child attend this school until these "players" were removed....and the people, the teachers and the parents took control of what they are paying for or providing. SHAME on the school and its employees for not protecting and standing up for these kids. They should NOT have the privelage for raising these kids. I am so ashamed of them. http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=story_stringfellow_to_be_given_156_day_s&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c338 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:59:57 +0000 c337@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution There was no Executive Session and there were no public comments at the meeting. Comments are to be invited during the Recommended Remedy meeting, where the agenda item will be "Congress Elementary School District Governing Board Open Meeting Law Enforcement Team Investigation Report". Assuming the publicly distributed meeting time will be correct, this will give people a better idea of what the Consent Agreement is about.
Comments are to be invited during the Recommended Remedy meeting, where the agenda item will be "Congress Elementary School District Governing Board Open Meeting Law Enforcement Team Investigation Report".

Assuming the publicly distributed meeting time will be correct, this will give people a better idea of what the Consent Agreement is about.
]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=cesd_board_accepts_ag_s_consent_agreemen&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c337 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:08:55 +0000 c336@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Very interesting. Did the Board go into Executive Session to discuss their legal options? Was there a time for public comment? It is good that the Board is going to go along with the AGs recommendations. Hopefully the additional training will improve OML compliance.
It is good that the Board is going to go along with the AGs recommendations. Hopefully the additional training will improve OML compliance.]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=cesd_board_accepts_ag_s_consent_agreemen&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c336 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:28:53 +0000 c335@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution I'm going put up a short follow-up with details but it looks like the Board is going to go forward with the AG's Recommended Remedy. http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c335 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:32:45 +0000 c334@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution What happened at the meeting yesterday? I was unable to attend. http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c334 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 05:17:23 +0000 c333@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Perhaps what you say is true and Pat "neglected" to update the date in the calendar but I have doubts that this would constitute a violation of the OML as the School District (acting for the board) has posted the correct date and time which fulfills the OML. In my opinion, based on what Tim Carter said at that meeting at the Fire Station back in October, outside of a quorum of the Board, Pat is an ordinary citizen. Thus what ahs did was no different that what you or I or any other citizen does. Note that Bob Sorce has been handling the current allegations: only one violation has been found. Note also that according to the Report, the public will be invited "to comment on the Report or any other Open Meeting Law Violations." Thus it's best to make sure allegations are reasonably sure to be found as violations, otherwise they will suffer the fate of the two allegations were found not to have violated the OML.
In my opinion, based on what Tim Carter said at that meeting at the Fire Station back in October, outside of a quorum of the Board, Pat is an ordinary citizen. Thus what ahs did was no different that what you or I or any other citizen does.

Note that Bob Sorce has been handling the current allegations: only one violation has been found.

Note also that according to the Report, the public will be invited "to comment on the Report or any other Open Meeting Law Violations." Thus it's best to make sure allegations are reasonably sure to be found as violations, otherwise they will suffer the fate of the two allegations were found not to have violated the OML.


]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c333 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 04:30:43 +0000 c332@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution As far as my information, it is 100% correct. I attended the 12-12-07 Board Meeting when the Board Members approved the time change. The 1-9-08 Board Meeting Agenda is now posted in front of the school on the fence, with a 6:00 p.m. start time, if you care to drive by and confirm. I do not receive a monthly calender from Pat Fisher as I have a private well for water. I question why that calender did not have the new time, being Pat Fisher is also one of the School Board Members that voted to make this time change, and she has said at Board Meetings she includes community information inserts in the water bill. I see this change without the community being informed just another way the Board is trying to eliminate public involvement. I hope you can get permission to leave work early to attend this meeting as the Open Meeting Law violation is on the agenda. I suggest if you cannot attend because of the confusion with the times, you file a complaint with Bob Sorce of the Arizona Attorney Generals Office. His email is robert.sorce@azag.gov or direct phone 602-542-8896. He is handling the current violations. By the way, if someone doesn't stir the pot, it could boil over.
As far as my information, it is 100% correct. I attended the 12-12-07 Board Meeting when the Board Members approved the time change. The 1-9-08 Board Meeting Agenda is now posted in front of the school on the fence, with a 6:00 p.m. start time, if you care to drive by and confirm.

I do not receive a monthly calender from Pat Fisher as I have a private well for water. I question why that calender did not have the new time, being Pat Fisher is also one of the School Board Members that voted to make this time change, and she has said at Board Meetings she includes community information inserts in the water bill.

I see this change without the community being informed just another way the Board is trying to eliminate public involvement.

I hope you can get permission to leave work early to attend this meeting as the Open Meeting Law violation is on the agenda. I suggest if you cannot attend because of the confusion with the times, you file a complaint with Bob Sorce of the Arizona Attorney Generals Office. His email is robert.sorce@azag.gov or direct phone 602-542-8896. He is handling the current violations.

By the way, if someone doesn't stir the pot, it could boil over.

]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c332 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:33:21 +0000 c331@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Thanks for the comments and sorry to be so long in getting back to you but I was in Prescott all day and didn't have time to read the Agendas and Minutes of the October/November/December meetings which I (finally) picked up this morning on my way to Prescott until I got home. I stopped by the PO on my home to see if the meeting Agenda was up to see if the AG's Report was listed but neglected to check the time of the meeting. However, when I read the minutes I saw that it had been changed to 6:00 p.m. although the Calendar from the Water District says 7:00 p.m. As for Pat making up the Calendar, I think it's actually Bri that does it. According to the AG's office, it's possible that the Board would approve the Consent Agreement and then discuss the Report all in one session, although it would be more likely the Consent Agreement would be agreed upon in one session and then discussed in the next. I think the only sure way to be there when the discussion took place is to show up at 6 p.m. tomorrow, January 9, 2007.
According to the AG's office, it's possible that the Board would approve the Consent Agreement and then discuss the Report all in one session, although it would be more likely the Consent Agreement would be agreed upon in one session and then discussed in the next.

I think the only sure way to be there when the discussion took place is to show up at 6 p.m. tomorrow, January 9, 2007.
]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c331 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:22:39 +0000 c330@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution I don't believe there is any stirring of the pot here by the public. I just went up to the PO with my husband to see the Agenda was posted at 2:30pm today the 8th of January. Stating that the meeting is indeed going to be held at 6pm on the 9th. Considering the whole idea of what open meeting laws are about, a person could assume that the public isn't really encouraged to attend these meetings. 1. Odd that the meeting was changed at the Dec 12th meeting. 2. Now is posted the day before the changed meeting time, 3. Not posted at the post office at the time of the change. I doubt the public can come to any other conclusion than the school is doing their best to exclude the community they serve. The letter CES received in Dec from the AG stated the board needed to discuss the AG’s letter on a violation of OML. This is in fact one of the reasons the school became a concern to many in the area during 02-03 years. Following procedures is not something to just pick and choose at. You either are trying for open communication or you are snuffing it out. Further, I am a disabled individual myself. On the agenda it states that persons needing an accommodation need to notify the school 72 hours prior. People in the community are expected to follow the rules, regardless that they were not notified of changes that affect every tax payer. However, if school procedures are questioned on any level, the public member is publically hung out for ridicule when they voice any concern. Jean
Considering the whole idea of what open meeting laws are about, a person could assume that the public isn't really encouraged to attend these meetings.

1. Odd that the meeting was changed at the Dec 12th meeting.
2. Now is posted the day before the changed meeting time,
3. Not posted at the post office at the time of the change.

I doubt the public can come to any other conclusion than the school is doing their best to exclude the community they serve.

The letter CES received in Dec from the AG stated the board needed to discuss the AG’s letter on a violation of OML. This is in fact one of the reasons the school became a concern to many in the area during 02-03 years. Following procedures is not something to just pick and choose at. You either are trying for open communication or you are snuffing it out.

Further, I am a disabled individual myself. On the agenda it states that persons needing an accommodation need to notify the school 72 hours prior. People in the community are expected to follow the rules, regardless that they were not notified of changes that affect every tax payer.

However, if school procedures are questioned on any level, the public member is publically hung out for ridicule when they voice any concern.

Jean]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c330 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:12:53 +0000 c329@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution Are you sure your information is correct? You say the meeting time was changed at the last board meeting by a unanimous vote, yet Pat Fisher, a board member, who works at the Congress Water District and sends out the monthly calendar of events along with the water bill has the meeting posted on that calendar at 7pm. I would sure hate to have to get permission to leave work early to make it there by 6pm only to end up having to wait around until 7pm!! Pat always makes it clear to everyone that she gets the correct information out to the community regarding these things. Are you sure of your information or are you trying to stir the pot - so to speak? http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c329 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:57:21 +0000 c328@http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution You have an error in the time of the next board meeting. At the 12-12-07 board meeting, the board voted to change the time to 6:00 p.m. effective 1-1-08. It was approved 3-0. Mrs Wayas said, "it would help the staff that wanted to attend". Mr Thompson said, "people will react if they don't like it". I don't know if they plan on making the community aware of this change, but with this approved change, the January 9, 2008 board meeting time should be 6:00 p.m., not 7:00 p.m. Troy Adams.
Troy Adams.]]> http://www.congress-arizona.com/b2evolution/index.php?blog=7&title=congress_school_district_violates_open_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#c328